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Update: Video Recreation of Arizona Crash; New Questions Emerge

By Robert Goyer / Published: Dec 01, 2011
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There are new questions surrounding the crash of a Turbo Commander last week, in which six perished when the airplane slammed into the side of a cliff in the Superstition Mountain range just east of Phoenix. The accident has prompted pilots to rethink their approach to flying at night near high terrain. Our suggestion was that TAWS of some form should be a part of every such flight — a six-plus passenger seat turbine-powered aircraft, the Commander that crashed was required to have TAWS installed, but as details of the crash emerge, investigators will be challenged to understand why the terrain alerting utility failed to protect the flight from harm.

In an article in the Arizona Republic earlier this week, NTSB investigator Michael Huhn said there are a number of questions that remain to be answered, including who was piloting the Commander and how the recently redesigned Class B airspace to the east of Phoenix might have contributed.

In an earlier interview, Huhn had said the Commander had been flying level at 4,500 feet up until near the point that it hit the ridge about a hundred feet below the ridgeline approximately five minutes into the flight. A webcam captured the impact and subsequent fireball, and some viewers believe the video shows the airplane slowing and/or pulling up in a vain attempt to clear the terrain. Of course, exactly what happened those last few moments is still under investigation, and many of the details will likely remain unknown.

Hilton Software, developer of the iPad app WingX Pro sent Flying a recreation of the accident flight, with the disclaimer the NTSB has not released a track or altitude information for the flight yet. Still, we feel the video shows what the pilot might have been seeing had he been monitoring the company’s app. Hilton Goldstein, company founder and CEO, pointed out the obvious, that the video is speculative in nature, and we felt it important to repeat that, as well.

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N714JG's picture

HOW MANY TIMES CAN I SAY "PILOT ERROR"?

WHOEVER WAS FLYING WAS DISTRACTED, NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO HIS INSTRUMENTS, DRUNK, DISORIENTED. STUPID, SICK, OR SELF DESTRUCTIVE. TAKE YOUR PICK AS THE FEDS WILL SAY "PILOT ERROR" AS USUAL.

olasek's picture

Not sure about the "new questions" but it is a perfect example why not having TAWS/ synthtic vision on Ipad (cheap!!) or even better certified synthetic vision built into the avionics is a gross negligence specially if you fly at night with your own kids.

salperin's picture

I don't think that given the circumstances they should have been flying VFR at night. Night flying in mountanous terrain should be IFR. Why take a chance! If you are flying an airplane like he was I am sure he had an instrument rating.

skymachines's picture

No, you don't have to fly IFR, but you should follow IFR routes on IFR charts and shoot an IFR approach so that you know you are protected. It's simple, even for VFR pilots.

Capt Larry's picture

It's unfortunate that the floor of the Class B airspace in that area is 5,000' and the peaks exceed that altitude within such a short distance. I think that should be reviewed.

CedarPilot1's picture

I have said the same and agree 100% with salperin and skymachines. If you night fly and especially in unfamiliar or mountainous terrain get an instrument rating, even if you don't file you can still fly the procedures in VFR weather. Staying on the black lines with the altitudes shown on approach plates and mea's shown on enroute charts will save your bacon.

CedarPilot1's picture

Night flying under class B's convoluted airspace at night is dangerous and should be avoided, ask for bravo clearance out of the area, if denied, rethink your departure or as I stated in my previous comment get an instrument rating and file IFR out of bravo airspace.

1awesomedude's picture

As already stated,,, pilot error. No matter what the airspace you do not fly into a mountain. Rule number 1. This is an example of being lackadasical and this is what happens. Sad for all that are gone, but stop wasting money and time investigating this. The pilot was the blame.

Barry97F's picture

I'm a little confused by folks who say the Bravo floor is dangerous because of terrain. Is talking on the radio scary? In my book, hitting mountains is what's scary.

Three choices... Get a clearance up into the Bravo, file and get cleared IFR, or take your chances around obviously charted, unlit, high terrain at night VFR. One of these things is not like the other...

I'm with CedarPilot1 and the others... If you're not comfortable flying in Bravo airspace or filing and flying an instrument plan, should you be flying a twin turboprop at night in high terrain?

BeechV35A's picture

From reading post on other websites by Phoenix area pilots, getting Bravo clearance isn't possible. The controllers will always deny a request for aircraft departing satellite airports. Getting IFR clearance for the flight route would mean that the controllers would vector the aircraft 50 miles west before clearing them onto course. The pilot was very familiar with the area and should have been able to pull off the VFR flight. Why he (they) didn't is the mystery.

Danny Wallace's picture

From what we now know, this is an obvious mistake on the part of the pilot (pilot error). Had it been a close call and all survived; it would have served as a lesson to those involved.
Unfortunately, lives were lost and now the incident serves as a lesson for those of us who are left to second guess, speculate, and evaluate how that flight should have been conducted.
Prayers for the comfort of the family.
We've all lost loved ones on this one, known or unknown.....

Capt Larry's picture

I do agree with you Barry97. As a professional pilot, I'm personally much more comfortable flying IFR than VFR into this particular situation. However, most of the private pilots in our country have not made the move to procure the 'coveted' instrument rating. The developers of this airspace took this into consideration and made it assessable for non instrument rated pilots. By the way, many countries prohibit non controlled flight. We invented flight. We need to keep that privilege

Demandit's picture

I am a center controller and am disturbed by the "wives tale" that controllers are all knowing and more importantly toooo busy to serve our users. I understand why one would rather go VFR everytime i.e. crazy routes and vectors all over the place, bad altitudes and most importantly "big brother" tracking your every move, just waiting to ruin ones flying life. The fact is all of this can be avoided a majority of the time. First we have two basic types of controllers these days. First the veterans who were trained on outdated equipment and tons of rules to make up for the poor equipment. Now the are rather jaded and lack empathy or the desire to adapt to our newer, much better equipment, so they work the same old way. On top of this less than 1 percent of them fly there own plane. Basically they have very little knowledge of what pilots actually want, need, require or desire. 99 percent of them think if you ask for a shortcut its because your greedy and you should just be happy they are "saving your life" by saying "blah blah center roger, blah blah altimeter 3006" then 5 minutes later saying "N1234 contact blah blah aproach/center on blah blah".

Second are the new controllers that are trained by these people to do the same thing. Not to say there aren't some really good controllers out there, but they are few, trust me. By good I mean going above and beyond to make things happen for our customers ( this is what I call pilots ) most call them "users".

All that being said, my advice is to Demand what you need and even want. Pilots ask for things because the request will make them more comfortable...right? Maybe to save fuel or get out of the couds or to get to smoother air or to fly an approach your more comfortable/familure with or to get to your destination faster. All this is a safety factor. By my view the faster you get to your destination, the less chance you have to encounter a problem. Hey you got plenty of fuel for your flight and tons of money laying around, but you want to go direct instead of some convoluted routing you thought you should file to not make the FAA mad at you or some routing you were given by a controller...maybe when you get to your destination the good wx went bad, you shot an approach but go missed you then climb back up to get over our MVA, MEA or whatever else we call em and get vectored all over for another shot. Then you go missed again and you bail to your alternate, but the winds are higher than forcast and now your bingo fuel.... That shortcut sure seems completely necessary now.... Guess what all I had to do to get that shortcut is say "cleared direct" or worse case press a button and call the next controller to sell them the idea... No big deal.

Want to go VFR in the mountains? Thats cool just key up and say you want flight following and when your in terrain just say yo center this is N1234 whats the MEA the next 100 miles? Problem solved.

Ask me some good questions because its time pilots and controllers are on the same page.

ct4me's picture

While the TAWS question looms, and the question about "going around" lingers, the real story is about the design of the Class B to begin with... The ceiling in that area used to be 8,000. Recently is was lowered to 5,000, creating a dangerous situation. The flying public fought it, along with the Arizona Pilots Association and the AOPA. The new design created a senario where a VFR pilot leaving KFFZ would have difficulty staying below the Bravo ceiling and be able to gain enough altitude to get over the mountain, much less having sufficient altitude to maintain the FAA suggested 2,000 ft buffer over mountains. If you want a chilling read, check out page 3 of this letter to the FAA from Heidi Williams, AOPA's airspace expert: http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060720az-letter.pdf - This is just one of many such warnings. Knowing this situation had been created, couldn't the FAA have instituted mandatory warnings from the KFFZ tower, or put a blinking light on the peak?

Mikey's picture

I just think it was bad planning. If you plot a straight line from Falcon to Safford you would miss the terrain initially, but you would come close to a few mountains en route. My guess is he was direct to San Carlos Apache, then down the valley to Safford. At night I go to (or send my students to) Florence Junction, you can follow the roads at night right to it. Stay on the road to Miami / Globe then down the valley (still over the road) down to Safford. You can even stay as low as 3500. I did my solo cross country to Safford from Gateway and I followed the roads the whole way. Even if you don't ask to enter the Bravo, please call the nearest controlling agency and request flight following, what can it hurt?

All my flight training was at Gateway, and I was an instructor at Falcon. Airspace, Bravo, Controllers, and Wildlife Areas; its all excuses. Remember when your instructor was sitting next to you, or reviewing your route before you went cross country, always think what would a CFI do?

Cuban8's picture

Although I'm not familiar with the Phoenix area at all, I keep reading that pilots in that area can't get a VFR clearance into Bravo and that VFR ATC services are slim and none...and I keep wondering , if that's true, why? Even when CVG (Greater Cincinnati) was at its height as a Delta hub, with 800-900 flights a day, there were many areas where I could get a clearance into Bravo and ATC was always helpful and willing to provide Flight Following. If what I've heard is true, why not Phoenix?

Demandit's picture

I know my comment 4 up from here was long, but its worth reading... I'm telling eveyone that controllers hold more blame in many accidents then the FAA will admit because of a "culture" that has developed where pilots are either scared, intimidated or just plain fed up with using the NAS that they pay good money for. The culture in the control rooms is one of "we can say unable" and you the pilots won't do a thing about it. If you want a clearance for anything you deem safety related DEMANDIT. My opinion everything you do in the air is safety related.

Phoenix traffic both approach and center is nothing compared to other places... I could go on for days about this stuff. Any other controllers on here?

stalkerreed's picture

No wonder pilots are our own worse enemies. Only 20% of you went beyond the uneducated public/FAA snap judgement to blame it on pilot error. Duh, CFIT is a no brainer pilot problem BUT, just as Air France over the South Atlantic, this easy cop out does not help prevent future accidents. Only Beechv35A and Demandit looked beyond the obvious to help discover WHY an experienced 121 Captain flying his twin turbo over a route he was well experienced with would have a CFIT event. You CVG folks and other flat-landers need to be slow to pen and help us fix the issues before you dismiss this tragic accident to the cop out "pilot error."

Sterling Reed, PA-140 owner, USAF (ret), International Airline Pilot, from PHX but living in ATL.

James Cross's picture

It is easy to second guess the decisions of the Pilot-in-Command in this tragedy but every pilot who has flown in mountainous terrain at night should know and understand the risks involved, especially when you have family and friend aboard.

All emotion aside, I think we should let the NTSB and FAA complete their investigation and while we may not get all of the answers we'll have a better understanding of the contributing factors.

What every responsible instrument rated pilot can do without waiting for the report(s) is remind ourselves that while having to file an IFR flight plan, getting a clearance, accepting the inevitable delays involved and flying the charted departure procedure is time consuming it is a small price to pay considering the risk involved in undertaking a flight like this.

While VFR pilots don't always get the services they should out of ATC they do have the right to say "unable" when the situation warrants it and do what is necessary to ensure the safe outcome of the flight.

ChampPilot44's picture

Could it be that this software company released such a video in a veiled attempt to sell their products? I sure hope not but I do question their motives.
Perhaps this is a good way to demonstrate the benefits of their software but it isn't tasteful to use a fresh event like this as their example.

oldthudman's picture

I'm not totally familiar with civilian forms of TAWS today....... TA mode should be settable and tied into the autopilot.....Probably should have an override even on manual...Especially when night flying......
AC such as the Twin Commander should be required to have avionics upgrades every 5 years............

Also does that mountain have red warning lights on it?.......Better still, I know the Guadalupe Mountains in West Texas had rotating red beacons in the high elevations (and this was years ago).....................

ct4me's picture

Great point on the warning lights/beacons... the idea is to learn from mistakes and keep this from happening again. With the design of the airspace, and all the warnings the FAA had, beacons should have been in place. It's the GA pilots that are complaining- but you'd think the beacons would be there for the Bravo/IFR traffic. The Bravo airspace ends a mile from the peaks, and 400 ft BELOW them.

pilotspride's picture

Dont know what to say. It's a simalation. my god Blame it on pilot... Dont think so.. If your screen showed you this coming your plane wont respond. kids on board. dont try to blame pilot. how sick. you ever have control problem. come on.. poo poo happens. That pilot was not there to kill his family and mech. He was trained. Next time you have a prob .. well you know.. where to put your head and what to kiss.. sick bastards... Distracted my ass. blessings to the family. pilots pride.

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