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maddogdriver
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NTSB Links Crashes to Mythical Phenomenon
from maddogdriver
wrote 12 weeks 6 days ago
There is a good discussion of this topic in the forum section on this site. http://www.flyingmag.com/forums/technical/turning-upwind-down-wind-and-acceleration
And holy cow chuckyvt really needs to review some basic theory on this topic. I sure hope it is a joke.....
NTSB Links Crashes to Mythical Phenomenon
from maddogdriver
wrote 12 weeks 6 days ago
Mark in Idaho: a pound of lead weighs more than a pound of feathers if the masses are the same. the feathers weight less due to their buoyancy resulting from the volume of air it displaces- for the same reason a pound of feathers would float in water while a pound of lead would obviously sink. This of course does not include the effect of the solar torque force or time dilation due to density differences.....:)
NTSB Links Crashes to Mythical Phenomenon
from maddogdriver
wrote 12 weeks 6 days ago
The Palm, Prop Cavitation? This is air, not water. Air does not boil at low pressures. And losing altitude in a turn is a result of pilot error alone and nothing at ALL to do with wind direction. (Wind shear is another topic altogether) Ground speed picks up in a turn to downwind, so an inexperienced pilot may look out the window and notice a faster than normal GS and pull up, reducing airspeed. But that is it. There is no inertial change, no IAS change, no AOA drop, nothing. A turn is a turn is a turn, as long as it is coordinated. In this case, the NTSB report is flat out wrong.
NTSB Links Crashes to Mythical Phenomenon
from maddogdriver
wrote 12 weeks 6 days ago
Try this experiment. Fly around under the hood with a safety pilot in a steady wind and see if you can tell when you are upwind/crosswind/downwind. I will bet any amount of money that with just a 6-pack of instruments and your "feel" you can not tell the difference.
When you are driving a boat in circles on a large moving river, can you feel the "acceleration" when going from upstream to downstream? Nope. There is no acceleration. Relative to the bank there is, but that is not a "felt" acceleration, just a perceived one. Your only frame of reference is the water, just as the air is while flying. (Substitute submarine for boat if you are about to argue that a boat is on top of the water and not in it....)
Inertia is not relevant to this discussion at all. The inertia of the aircraft through the air is CONSTANT as long as the TAS is constant, no matter what.
Would you hit the ground harder going downwind that upwind if you crashed? Yes, and that is a different, but interesting discussion in itself:)
NTSB Links Crashes to Mythical Phenomenon
from maddogdriver
wrote 12 weeks 5 days ago
The NTSB is simply a group of guys doing their jobs. Some do it better than others. This particular gentleman just misunderstands the physics of this subject and is letting intuition get the best of him. I saw this many times with my primary students. Turning to downwind while doing ground reference maneuvers they visually notice an increase in ground speed, and incorrectly correlate that with IAS. They assume that if their speed is increasing and power output is constant, the only reason for the increase in speed is a descent. Subconsciously they pull up in attempt to arrest the supposed descent which will in fact decrease airspeed, putting the aircraft in a slower than normal condition. There is no inertial change, no acceleration or deceleration, only a reaction to an observed increase in ground speed. There are many analogies to stress this point, but in the end the physics prevail. The only time stall becomes an issue is with wind shear or mountain wave. My day job plane flies at 370 and close to called the coffin corner. When we encounter mountain wave while maintaining altitude, the descending side of the wave can cause a precarious decrease in airspeed and has caused a number of high altitude stalls in the past. Other than that, steady wind has NO effect on IAS or inertia.
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